torque converter slip actual vs desired torque converter slip actual vs desired

That includes the advanced manufacturing technology being used in optimizing torque converters. When that connection is fully engaged, the fluid clutchs torus members are effectively locked together they must turn together at engine speed and transmit no torque. I was running the KEM 250 and 310 tunes. You are using an out of date browser. Once the clutch plate is fully engaged against the pressure plate, both must turn together at the same speed. by SirHandyMan Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:43 am, Post Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:39 am, Post I am however, now chasing some unusual engine noises which are a different issue entirely. Once your torque converter starts failing, you need to be knowledgeable about what torque converter problems will disable your car? It stayed there(18.24) from 60mph to 90 when I let off of it. When it comes to automatic-equipped street machines and drag-race cars, the torque converter is a welded-up magic box that few enthusiasts know much about. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. These torque converters allow some slippage but it should not vary much from the desired PCM value. Thanks for copying the information from my other post here. Now that we have DISCONTINUED our use of Google Analytics tracking on this website, this cookie no longer functions no additional analytics data will be collected, with or without the cookie. Come join the discussion about diesel performance, modifications, EGR deletes, troubleshooting, lift kits, tires, wheels, maintenance, and more! its the mechanically controlled aod. The cookies normally expire in about 10 days, and are not set at all if you do not access any password-protected content. The logic of these schematics, which are not to scale and which have been greatly simplified for clarity, is that each color represents a set of components that are integral or otherwise connected so that they always rotate together; clutches, brake bands, planet pinions, and flywheels are shown in black or gray. Desired is what the PCM is commanding and Actual is how much it is actually slipping measured in RPM. Basically, the fluid exits the center of the turbine and is redirected by the stator back into the impeller. I checked for codes and had none that explained why it happened. (For each of these cookies, "xx" will be a cryptographic hash.) After logging in, the wp-settings-UID cookies store the logged-in user's configuration settings, while the wp-settings-time-UID cookies record the time those configuration settings were last set; again, there may be multiple iterations of each of these cookies, which normally expire after about one year. Torque converter slip question - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums The information below will outline the most common torque converter issues and their solutions. With the torque slip PID on the DashDAQ. Turbine speed tends to fall behind impeller speed any time load increases (for example, when going up a steep grade) and an increase in engine speed doesnt immediately produce a corresponding increase in turbine speed. The one-way stator clutch (fuchsia) allows the stator (light blue) to freewheel in the direction of engine rotation, but reverse rotation locks the stator against the fixed stator shaft (dark gray), providing torque multiplication under some conditions. Another important part of the torque converter and stall-speed equation is converter diameter. Once the brakes (or the transbrake) is released and the vehicle begins to move, the turbine spins up and the speed difference between the two diminishes. (PayPal.com, PayPal, and all logos related to the PayPal services are either trademarks or registered trademarks of PayPal, Inc. or its licensors. They may persist for up to two years. ), This cookie was set if you clicked the "Disable Google Analytics Tracking" link to prevent the Google Analytics service from tracking your use of the Ate Up With Motor website. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Also, engaging a lockup clutch will prevent a torque converter from multiplying torque. Transmission Range) start a datalog or have an assistant drive and watch Torque Converter Slip Actual (TCA) and Torque Converter Slip Desired (TCD). (author diagram). The only problem - there's a boat-load of information and I only know how to interpret a fraction of it. The turbine drives the front annulus through the input shaft (medium blue). Such cookies and/or stored data items may be set by various domains (such as, though not necessarily limited to, youtube.com; youtube-nocookie.com; googlevideo.com; ytimg.com; google.com; accounts.google.com; www.googleadservices.com; and/or doubleclick.net, which is part of the DoubleClick advertising service, also owned by Google LLC). If oil pressure to the cylinder was relieved, the pressure plate would no longer be held against the clutch plate, disengaging the clutch and allowing the torque converter to function normally. One of the fundamental differences between a fluid clutch (a fluid coupling or torque converter) and a mechanical plate clutch is slippage. There was also a kickdown mechanism that allowed the driver to disengage the clutch at road speeds between 13 and 56 mph (21 and 90 km/h) by flooring the accelerator, allowing the torque converter to again multiply torque. Some electrical tape and some plastic wire loom may solve your issue entirely. This is a session cookie that verifies that the user has entered valid user credentials pending receipt of the correct authentication code; the cookie normally expires when the user closes their browser (or other user agent). Manage Preferences - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Your torque converter is full of fluid, and its jobis to act as a hydraulic pump and acts as a coupling between the engine and the transmission. Only lasts from .5 seconds to 2 seconds. These cookies expire in about 15 days if the user clicks "Remember Me" when logging in; if not, the cookies normally expire when the user closes their browser (or other user agent), or, failing that, within about two days. Welcome to the dark world of torque converters. So I picked up a scan tool to save on the abundant diagnosing fees associated with owning a 2005 5.4 f150. The cookies are not set at all unless you select that option when submitting a comment. Your car's automatic transmission has a torque converter. For more information, please see our These cookies are necessary for the site's administrative users (who wouldn't even be able to log in without them), but if you are not an administrative user, these cookies aren't normally placed on your device at all unless you somehow access the login area, which is off-limits to non-administrators. Giving Slip the Slip: Lockup Torque Converters and Split Torque (not Diameter) Many aftermarket companies offer performance lockup torque converters that can provide a higher stall speed without sacrificing the advantages of the lockup converter for highway use. How exactly are you measuring how much the tc is slipping? Larger-diameter converters are usually more efficient and deliver less slippage, while smaller-diameter converters offer more stall speed and more slippage. Ate Up With Motor, its logo, and other associated icons and graphics are trademarks and/or service marks of Aaron Severson dba Ate Up With Motor. In this installment of Ate Up With Motor, we take a look at how GM, Ford, Chrysler, Packard, and Studebaker have approached this slippery problem from 1949 through the late eighties. When the torque converter starts malfunctioning, you may feel shuddering and even slipping in overdrive. The payment button in the "Support Ate Up With Motor" box (and similar payment or donation buttons that may appear on portions of the administrative dashboard, which is not normally accessible except to logged-in administrative users) contains embedded content served by PayPal services. by SirHandyMan Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:27 pm, Post When you experience fluid leaks, you aren't retaining the amount of transmission fluid; the torque converter needs to transfer the power from the engine to the transmission. 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Stator The stator is called the middleman. Doesn't seem to coincide with vehicle shifting though. If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. But now with the Spartan 275 I am seeing 18.24 at WOT with the converter locked. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. This website is using a security service to protect itself from online attacks. Well, I thought I did explain that in my reply post. (At present, this setting does NOT affect the payment or donation buttons that may appear on portions of the site's administrative dashboard, nor does hiding the box affect any cookies that may have already been set). This slippage is part of what determines the stall speed of the converter. Since taking all the of the steps outlined above, I can confirm that the transmission has been running properly and the clutch working as expected. Like the contemporary Buick Dynaflow, Ultramatic was designed to operate most of the time in its direct drive top gear. The fluid did not look dirty. Once the clutch plate is fully engaged against the pressure plate, both must turn together at the same speed. Vehicle weight is another major factor that should be considered when selecting a converter. Have you ever gotten in your car, started it up, put it in gear only to feel it shudder? the only readings i got was for all the electronically controlled aod. The impellers spun by the engine's crankshaft. The iThemes Security plugin may also set the itsec-hb-login-xx cookie, which helps to protect the site against "brute force" hacking attempts; that cookie normally expires in about one hour. I had just bought an SCT with Gearhead tunes. The image file itself contains no personally identifiable information, but the loading of that file may be used to help identify and/or track you. In certain cases, multiple iterations of either or both of these cookies may be set. by Silver Flex SEL. Twice last week, when I came up to a stop light, the engine bogged down to 400rpm then recovered back to normal idle. During a shudder the desired will stay close to 0rpm but the act pid will go up and down in rpm. The one for torque slip desired is 1020 rpm. Required fields are marked *. Ive been troubleshooting a low RPM with light acceleration shudder on my 2011 EcoBoost Flex. (For more information about our discontinuation of Google Analytics tracking on this website, see the "Online Tracking" section of the Privacy Policy. This and the GM automatic history are probably the most definitive descriptions of these technologies on the Internet, excepting pure design and engineering treatises. Input output shaft readings are almost exactly the same when driving. Achieving a true 1:1 speed relationship between the turbine and the impeller is not possible with a non-lockup torque converter since it is still a fluid coupling. JavaScript is disabled. (WordPress and the WordPress logos are registered trademarks of the WordPress Foundation in the United States and other countries. However, that did not cure the shuddering problem. The action you just performed triggered the security solution. The replacement was a cheaper and somewhat simpler Borg-Warner unit which Studebaker-Packard called Flightomatic that deleted the DGs lockup clutch. what is the protocol using AE to diagnosis torque slip. Less than 15rpm is normal and more than that will cause shudder. Contact Us - T43 Torque Converter Desired Slip. It ran pretty good. mroberthowell 4 yr. ago Thank you so much! & Tm. It may not display this or other websites correctly. of course it could be logging falsely No, that just means its not locking, or the pid isn't reading right. one of the strange quirks of these transmissions is if they are a quart or so low it will feel like the torque converter does not disengage at stop. A reverse band surrounds a brake drum connected to the front carrier, which is also integral with the rear annulus (orange). Unsurprisingly, each engagement or disengagement of the lockup clutch felt like a shift, giving less technically knowledgeable drivers the mistaken impression that Ultramatic was a two-speed automatic. The original Packard Ultramatic had a four-element torque converter with a single stator (light blue) interposed between the first- and second-stage turbines, providing a stall ratio of 2.4:1 at 1,600 rpm. .. makes you appreciate the thought and consideration that goes into EFILive if only we could clone the boys (and girls) of EFILive, imagine a Delphi Ross and Bosch Ross, By WS600 in forum General (Petrol, Gas, Ethanol), By Bradazz in forum 4speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T42), By joecar in forum 4speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T42), 6 speed/8 speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T43, T76, T87), http://forum.efilive.com/showthread.012-T43-Tables, If this is your first visit, be sure to Tire slip is likely causing your speed difference. (These cookies may not be set at all for administrative users unless they access the publicly visible portions of the website and/or update their consent settings e.g., by accepting an updated version of the Privacy Policy. Do you want them slipping when driving? However, even at coupling stage, the turbine still turns somewhat slower than the impeller. One is turned by the enginge. For additional information about how Google uses cookies and/or other technologies that may collect and/or process personal information, see the "Technologies" section of their Google Privacy & Terms site and the "Our advertising and measurement cookies" section of their Google Business Data Responsibility site, which includes a detailed list of cookies associated with Google advertising and measurement products. I havent studied the Wilson preselectors in any great detail, but if youre curious, the applicable U.S. patents are US1404675 and US1796904. If your going over ten your gonna need a new torque converter fairly soon..depends how you drive.. my converter started off slipping at about 13 on the 275 and ended up wearing out pretty quick and it began slipping like 45-50 on the gauge. With no slip at all. The vehicle suffered a torque converter failure at around 140k miles. but the question is when i put my buddys obd code finder on it. Datalogging converter lockup question | SVTPerformance.com If the solenoid is not regulating the fluid flow properly, it could cause variability in the torque converter clutch performance as well. It will also integrate that knowledge with what type of car and transmission consumers are buying. In addition, all page headers, custom graphics, button icons, and scripts related to the PayPal services are service marks, trademarks, and/or trade dress of PayPal. Unless you have tune that keeps the converter unlocked, the converter should've locked. Fluid clutches fluid couplings and torque converters have many advantages for automotive transmissions, but with those benefits comes a cost: fuel-wasting hydraulic slippage even at cruising speed. This is not an official website of any automaker or automotive brand! There is going to be some slip. Torque converter problems have a high impact on your car's ability to function and drive. Being a fluid coupler, your car's torque converter relies on transmission fluid to operate correctly. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. Theshuddering makes the car lagand is very noticeable. A manufacturer's torque-converter rating is generally expressed as an rpm range. I think you should check the fluid level first and foremost. The GM team that designed Hydra-Matic was certainly familiar with the Wilson preselector. Torque Converter Clutch Low Slip Speed Detection and Control Fluid clutches also dont allow much engine braking. With the clutch engaged, Ultramatic also transmitted some drivetrain vibration that the torque converter would otherwise have absorbed. If you are experiencing shuddering, also check your engine mounts. This setting is stored in your browser (or other user agent) in the gdpr[consent_types] cookie described in "Privacy and Cookie Preferences" above, so if you delete that cookie or access the Ate Up With Motor website from a different device, browser, or user agent, you will need to adjust this setting again if you still wish to hide the box. Privacy Statement - About Us - Torque converter seals can get damaged for several reasons. For people who want a broader overview, I would recommend a book by Philip G. Gott entitled Changing Gears: The Development of the Automotive Transmission, published by the SAE as part of their Historical Series in 1991. Post It was followed in fairly short order by the 1950 Studebaker Automatic Drive, which took a somewhat different approach to the same problem. I have read and accepted the Privacy Policy Dr. Tranny helped for a short time and then the car became entirely undriveable. For more information about Google advertising, see the "Advertising" section of their Google Privacy & Terms site. That should make you and your car happy. One thing Ive always wondered about was if any manufacturers looked into Wilson pre-selector gearboxes as a basis of an automatic. check trans fluid. The rear planet carrier is attached to the main shaft, which is also splined to the lockup clutch and drives the rear oil pump and governor (medium green). A multi-disc clutch can lock that carrier to the front sun gear, which is also attached to the rear brake drum (dark red). Part 3 of 3 High Performance Academy Sonnax and SIU - Mega Torque. I agree that a manual transmission option would be great. For most hot street engines, converters in the 2,200 to 2,600-rpm range are considered streetable but will still require a very efficient trans cooler to keep them out of the heat zone. (Google, DoubleClick, YouTube, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC. Each PayPal payment or donation button may also incorporate a tracking pixel called "pixel.gif" (which loads from paypalobjects.com). and our Performance & security by Cloudflare. (Those pages do not currently discuss the storage of data in your browser (or other user agent) using technologies other than cookies, e.g., in web storage.) The end result is the torque converterisn't able to transferthat power completely and efficiently from the engine to the transmission. Google, AdSense, Google AdSense, Google Analytics, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC. Accessing the login page sets the wordpress_test_cookie, a session cookie that tests whether the user's browser (or other user agent) will allow the cookies needed to log in to the administrative dashboard; this cookie normally expires when the user closes their browser (or other user agent). Diagnosing a potential Torque Converter problem with a Scan tool sir im having an issue with my 93 f150 aod. The downside to these converters is that they are heavier and more expensive than non-lockup converters. (author diagram). Currently the vehicle is much better to drive. Torque Converter slippage | PowerStrokeArmy if you dont hammer on it everyday it will last you a long time.. my stock converter had 350 rpms of slip on Also, as we explained in the sidebar of our article on GMs other early automatic transmissions, torque converters utilize the speed difference between the driving and driven torus members to multiply engine torque. The Vimeo Cookie Policy also provides information about how Vimeo users can control the use of third-party analytics and/or advertising cookies in connection with embedded Vimeo video players. Gears Magazine - Nag 1/722.6 P0741 TCC Slip The combination of a smaller-diameter and lighter converter means that less engine torque is required for acceleration. Second, consider draining and filling the transmission a few times since you can't get all the fluid out with just one drain/fill cycle. Some persist for only a few minutes, or until you close your browser (or other user agent); others may remain in your browser (or other user agent) as long as your individual settings permit. (These cookies are not usually set for administrative users, since comments they submit while logged in are associated with their user ID number and user profile information rather than a manually entered name and email address.). Ultramatics lockup clutch was a hydraulically operated wet clutch located within the torque converter housing, between the engine flywheel and the converter turbine. If the engine is not running smoothly and/or delivering consistent power, it can cause fluctuation in the "Desired" versus "Actual" torque converter clutch slippage along with a surging feeling. scheme, but it does contribute. The DG series transmissions were notionally three-speed automatics (although early iterations were designed to start in second gear) with a torque converter lockup clutch. The mount on the transmission side (under the battery) was severely damaged, the rubber legs inside the bushing were torn through and was allowing a lot of engine movement. Remember, a torque converter is a coupler between the engine and transmission. Its job is to smoothly convert engine torque into hydraulic pressure that your transmission uses to engage and shift gears. Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. It's all about creating an overall tuned package that complements the rest of your car. Submitting a comment signifies your acceptance of our Comment Policy please read it first! A third drum (dark green) allows the overrunning clutchs outer race to be locked in place by the forward band, which is engaged in all forward gears. Almost no one thinks of it, but when you drive your automatic transmission car, you're master over your cars torque converter. If you correctly enter the password, the site saves this cookie on your device to allow you access to the password-protected post or page. The space ahead of the clutch formed a hydraulic cylinder containing an annular steel piston that acted as a pressure plate. These a11y cookies normally expire after about seven days, but are removed immediately if you restore the applicable settings to their default values. 6l90 TCC apply ramp strategy. ECCC - HPTuners One or more wp-saving-post cookies may be set while creating and/or editing posts or pages, to help manage version control and the autosave feature; these cookies normally expire after about 24 hours. Most street torque. This creates the greatest speed difference between the turbine and the impeller and therefore the maximum torque multiplication. What to Do to Fix Overheating and Seal Damage. 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